Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. Also, we'll be happy to correct or delete anything if you point it out to us in the meantime. Lastly, not only are PMAGs more expensive than the alternative, but also heavier. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. This clearance is partially determined by the use of aLuth-AR .308 rifle buffer tube, spring, and weight [https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/]. My solution is to raise the bottom rear edge of the mag well by approximately 1mm to 1.5mm. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I have both just to keep ammo separated. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. That one issue, right there, because in the previous pics, that bolt catch isn't sticking up enough to reliably get that bolt face every time. The mag doesn't need to come up so far as to cause this condition but the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. Also if you rest your gun on the mag when you shoot (by the way don't do this) it will shove most mags including FN factory ones. Again, kids running with scissors did this to us. Im almost through with my build, however I have noticed that my Seekins enhanced Bolt Catch in my Anderson lower is not locking back on PMags like it does on my aluminum and steel magazines. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. Come join the discussion about optics, modifications, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! I just checked and my BM lower does the same. It's a whole lot of details. What corresponding dimensions do you have? Talyn said: Pmag VS Hexmag. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. I don't and I didn't . honest. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". Just did this, no difference. Ok, so I have searched the hide and my googlefu is actin a fool like my pmags You must log in or register to reply here. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. check out the. This is. It is tight getting the depth gauge to the lower so the caliper may need to be slightly rotated but not in a direction that will affect the height measurement. .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. I used a digital caliper depth gauge as shown in the picture. I was curious about how other magazines behaved in the lower so I measured them to simply verify reasonable consistency. You are using an out of date browser. Also don't buy anything from Beavercreek Armory in Hillsboro, Oregon as they screwed me over with this poorly built, out of spec rifle. i have thermolds, and usgi mags and the rest of them work perfectly.. Scan this QR code to download the app now. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. Powered by Invision Community, Problems with failure to feed AND failure to catch bolt. View attachment 25288. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. What's stopping your bolt catch travel, when you have that plunger and spring in there? JavaScript is disabled. Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. You can post now and register later. While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. 6: Bolt catch fully extended = 0.359, Fig. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. I can manually push the bolt catch tab in to raise the catch higher. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. If so, it would cause both symptoms. Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. As weird as this will sound, you need to measure the length of your recoil buffer, and the internal depth of your buffer tube and post it here in addition to the excellent info already provided. the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. Also the follower rides the bolt catch up A LOT. Also check out this great, descriptive video as the Gen3 7.62x51 PMag followers have a slightly different contour which can catch the feed lips, and not rise high enough to engage the bolt catch properly on DPMS Gen 2 style bolt catch levers. Sounds like the pmag is riding a little high and rubbing the bottom of the carrier a bit. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. *, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to Yes I had to trim the left side rear notch square before the BC laid perfectly flat. It was initially 0.323 deep. We are all guilty of doing this, in one way or another. Checking mine now! I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. Insert the steel DPMS mag and lock the bolt back and look through the ejection port and note how much of the bolt face the bolt catch covers. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. Is it the length of the plunger? I recently assembled this Noveske rifle and bought 3. the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. I realized you can fix this by filing or dremeling off some material on the rear of the mag body, or by using whatever generation of magazine they implemented to fix this, or you could just arrive at my next point and save four or five dollars more by purchasing a GI mag. When I release the bolt, the back end of the follower is sticking up, and the bolt will strip the follower right out of the top of the magazine if I let it go. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate Professional. Your enemies, with nodding of their plumes, fan you into despair! I didn't include that aspectbecause the bolt easily clears the bolt catch (figure 4) so I didn't want to throw in a red herring andconfuse the issue. A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. I suspect yours will be higher than mine. Maybe after Magpul completes their move they'll address some of their mold issues, 'til then it's best to check. They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens.. Thanks for this HC, I'm going to inspect my Gen 3's to see if mine have the same witness marks. The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. I have about 15 Amend 2 mags, but that's out of 20 because 5 of them wouldn't drop out of the mag well by themselves. Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. Sorry, I see the bolt is hitting the follower i could not see that at first.. Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but I thought the bolt catch is SUPPOSED to ride up on the follower? JavaScript is disabled. #5. 8: Bolt Carrier to upper receiver = 0.283. So far so good. As soon as my wife lifts our household arms embargo, I will have one. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. This is one of my pistols. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. Note the different rear opening. : "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.". By You are using an out of date browser. For me it's almost all gen 2 P mags. What changed? The bolt passes over the cartridge instead of stripping it from the magazine. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. NEW PRICING: All products have been reduced 10%! It was initially 0.323 deep. When the PMAG 20LR is inserted into the magazine well, some MWS rifles exhibit interference between the bolt catch and the rear of the magazine. These two pics right here, and the height difference. Your link has been automatically embedded. The P-mags always functioned. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. This solution will meet some states permanence requirements. Some rifles are just finicky. But with firearms, there really is seldom a one size fits all option for, well, anything. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. Here's a photo showing the mags. Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release = 0.696, Fig. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. Pasted as rich text. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work. Posted July 20, 2016 in Shooting Accessories, TFBTV by Alex C. with 210 CommentsTags: I'm the guy at the store with 27 coupons, Magpul, pmag, PMAGs, Tightwad. Re: Magpul PMag issues. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. I get asked a lot why, in almost all of my reviews or videos, I use good old-fashioned U.S. GI steel magazines in lieu of Magpul PMAGs, a popular alternative that most shooters these days are familiar with. I like the idea that I can accomplish a speedy reload by pressing a button and kicking a magazine out. New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. Magpul needs to tweak their mold a bit before they make the claims they do. Fig. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine. It did. Measure the depth of the hole, first. There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. Hey, everyone. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but I'd first like to solve the feed problem. So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. Its Alex C. with TFBTV. Either the hole gets deeper, or a couple coils come off the spring, or the tail on the plunger gets shortened. Upload or insert images from URL. I'll have to get measurements later. 7: Bolt catch fully extended, plunger removed = 0.443, Fig. I just don't know why my friend has witness marks on his pmags after use in my Scar 16s. All Rights Reserved. I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. edit: i just got them. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another P-Mag bolt catch issue. Clear editor. Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. The ones I used were my friends and I checked the bolt catch before I shot. Coil bind on the spring? One new winner* is announced every week! To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. Fig. All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the bolt catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. I included a pic of the mag fully inserted, then a mag with the follower pushed down to the point of where the bolt catch stays flat. Like CPT stated, it's supposed to raise it some and technically it can only go so far before the BCR bottoms out. When someone mentions must-have magazines for the AR platform, many shooters immediately think of Pmag Vs Hexmag. I'll try and grab my camera. Try manually locking it back a dozen or so times then checking for any wear streaks on the top of the magazine feed lips. The main concern is the failure to feed. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! Replace the empty magazine with a new 10 round magazine and let it click into place. PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. It may not display this or other websites correctly. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. We STRONGLY encourage all users to ONLY run premium ammunition through their firearm at all times. Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. Copyright © 308AR.com 2023 Open the receivers to the maximum limit of the pin capabilities. If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. 80% ar-10 bolt jammed m5e1 pmag stuck 1 2 Next Mk3Mstr6Mchne0 Atlington, Washington Messages 12 Reactions 28 Apr 30, 2019 #1 this is kind of hard to explain, I am also pretty experienced with the AR platform, my M5e1 upper is assembled on an 80% lower. Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. Like you hear military folk say, Ounces equal pounds. And in the case of the PMAG, a full loadout saves the user a bit of weight. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I'd like to get measurements with lowers that did not start as an 80% because there have been reports of80% lowers having the same problem as mine. Next up is damage to the SCAR. You cannot paste images directly. That should tell you what's going on. First and foremost, I will readily acknowledge that PMAGs are a great magazine. The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. Have the power still to banish your defenders; till at length your ignorance, which finds not till it feels, making but reservation of yourselves, still your own foes, deliver you, as most abated captives to some nation that won you without blows!". I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. Its best to identify these two common issues with your rifle, before attempting to diagnose problems with your magazines. Your previous content has been restored. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. and our If someone can answer that, I'd appreciate it. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. If you have something major to change a quick PM to a mod will get it fixed for ya. Gonna remove the anodizing, but making omelets requires the breaking of eggs; so. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. No need to answer that last question. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . Mick 1 month later. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. What measurements do you have on your lower? and might have several still in the packaging. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. How is it though that my. Mar 3, 2022. The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower. A new one can be sent upon request. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experiences, and your mileage may vary. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. I have a DPMS pattern LR-308 under construction that has a failure to feed and fails to catch the bolt on an empty magazine. Always use the firearm and AR MAGLOCK products as designed, engineered and intended for use. I will lock back, but requires a strong pull, instead of the gentle slide fully to the rear with aluminum or steel. Elite Aluminum Products although I dont know who made them. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release hole = 0.692. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isn't present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. Fig. JavaScript is disabled. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. The Fix: 1.) Let every feeble rumor shake your hearts! /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. Paste as plain text instead, Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Definitely try another couple magazines, including one from another manufacturer. You'll need to clay the upper, just like you'd do if you were checking an engine for piston-to-valve clearance. NEVER attempt to cycle the bolt carrier group (manually or otherwise) or fire a round with the action open (receivers separated), as this may cause serious injury or death AND potentially make your rifle non-compliant with laws and regulations! Morality is nothing more than expressions of people's personal taste/ Right? I read through the threads dealing with this issue. Seamac, did you have to modify the black polymer on the mag? It was initially 0.323 deep. https://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=relevance&dir=desc&q=Sig+bolt+catch. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. They are reliable, well-constructed, and produced by a company that has a great reputation. Depth of the hole? *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions, https://www.triggershims.com/ar_15_shims.html. Cookie Notice Display as a link instead, His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Because both symptoms exist, it seems that the components within each receiver may be too far from each other which leads me to suspect that the interface between the upper or lower is too thick. A: Some states require the compliance solution be made permanent. That might give a more consistent measurement between yours and mine. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Similar occurences? We STRONGLY encourage all users to always use the new PMAG magazine or some other 10 round magazine solution with a removable floor plate. Pmags have worked fine in the past. Hexmag for 260rem and pmag for 6.5creed. All Rights Reserved. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. The issue is with bolt lock back. . Suggestions? Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. Not up on the 80% stuff myself but we have a thread with lots of different brand bolt catches and the dimensions that may help on that end, please add to it if you have something not listed there. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. For more information, please see our Excellent work with the pics and details.
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pmag bolt catch problem